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Boyd Rice 2012. Photo: Mute Records.

I had my first contact with Boyd Rice in the early 90’s after hearing his appearance in Bob Larson’s radio show. I wrote a letter to Boyd (there were no emails or internet in general use back then) who replied and kindly sent me a copy of Abraxas newsletter.

Years passed. The last year Boyd declared that the Church of Satan was dead. Soon after that I made an interview with Larry Wessel who had made a documentary film called Iconoclast about Boyd. At this point I was already thinking that an interview with Boyd would be great and the idea was cooking up.

Finally, after some 20 years since my first contact with Boyd, I contacted him again. He was fine about an interview to the blog and I started to make questions. The interview was made one question at a time over some two months. When the interview began I had no idea about Boyd’s upcoming gig in Helsinki, Finland – that created a whole new dimension to the interview!

In the interview Boyd talks about his current projects, the Church of Satan, Anton LaVey, Bob Larson, Iconoclast, pranks, reincarnation, Scandinavia, ABBA, Finland, architect Eero Saarinen and many other things.

Without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, Boyd Rice speaks!

– – –

Present

Hi Boyd, how are you doing?

I couldn’t be better. Just redecorated my apartment and painted my black walls metallic silver. It took weeks, but it’s amazing! Life is good. My girlfriend is moving in with me and we’re making room for her shoes.

If this interview could take place anywhere, anytime, where would you take us to talk?

I used to know a french scholar who had the keys to Jean Cocteaus apartment in Paris, and it hadn’t been touched since Cocteau died and this guy really wanted me to see it. That would be the fetishistic fantasy place. Unfortunately this guy got some deadly disease and ended up killing himself. So I guess my modern answer would be my own apartment here in Denver. Or perhaps The Madonna Inn.

There is a new book out from you, Twilight Man. Tell us about the book, what is it about, where to get a copy?

It is about my life in 80’s San Francisco and how I came to develop a sense of “cultural pessimism”, I guess. It hasn’t gotten a bad review insofar as I know. People find it a fun read, even though it is ugly and brutal.

You can get it on the internet or just ask God for a copy…

There is also a biography under work about you. Who is the author, when can we expect to get the book into our hands?

Nina Antonia. Her Johnny Thunders bio is being made into a movie in Hollywood, so maybe someday when I’m dead there will be a movie too. We can hope…

Talking a bit more about books, you are one of the authors who have been ripped off by Creation Books. What do you think, will there be any chance of getting “James Williamson” to court to face justice for the fraud he has committed?

I seriously doubt it.

What is the most interesting book you have read lately? Why it was interesting?

The last book I read was the Nina Antonia bio of Johnny Thunders. It was interesting because his life was interesting and because Nina’s a great writer and brings a lot of insight to her subject-matter.

– – –

Boyd with Anton LaVey. Photo: Carl Abrahamsson.

Church of Satan

How your first meeting with past Anton LaVey went? Where did you meet, any special jokes, wisdoms, or other notes about the meeting to share with us?

Anton met me at a film festival I was associated with and invited me to his house. I went over the following week and went back every week until I left the city. The stories he told me are all in his bio, which was essentially dictated to Blanche as he told them to me.

You wrote the last year a text where you declared yourself a High Priest of the Church of Satan and in the same text you also declared that the Church of Satan doesn’t exist anymore. This naturally caused some talk. I haven’t seen any reply from the Church to you regarding the text anywhere but I guess you have been receiving some feedback privately. What kind of feedback you have received? Has Peter H. Gilmore said anything about your text?

Of course not. Gilmore is a pussy. Everyone in the C.o.S. loves me and are bored to death of him and he knows it. Anton had a very dark heart and it sickens me to see people whitewash him and present his creed as pure rationalism. He was larger than that.

Rationalism and mysticism cannot co-exist. The latter speaks to soul oriented values and to the unknown (which man is trying to fathom). The former is a conceit that lets man think he has a handle on everything (he doesn’t). I would go so far as to say rationalism is the ultimate lack of logic. It certainly has no place in “occult” doctrine.

I think it’s easy for Gilmore to misrepresent LaVey because he didn’t really know him too well. I was at the Blackhouse all the time.

I think it’s easy for Gilmore to misrepresent LaVey because he didn’t really know him too well. I was at the Blackhouse all the time. That’s why I will defend Anton till the day I die, and that’s why I take the stance I do on the modern C.o.S…

I heard from a scholar of comparative religions the last year that Gilmore works or has been working in a Walmart, in a not so high position, while holding the status of the High Priest of the Church of Satan. I think there is nothing that special in someone working in a Walmart per se, but if someone is a High Priest of a church that is, or gives an impression of being, all about “might is right” and power in this world, this seems a bit amusing. Do you know if the claim is true? What kind of thoughts this brings to your mind in general?

I seriously doubt that is true, but a lot of people with a power philosophy have to punch a time-clock, that’s just the nature of the world. At least they have the notion of rising above that and in time perhaps they will. But anyone wishing to criticise Gilmore needn’t tell lies about his job… but rather point out how he’s bastardizing ASLV’s thought.

What do you think Anton would think of Gilmore and others who run the Church of Satan nowadays? What would he say to them?

Much what he said to me when he was still alive – that they were what Stalin called “useful idiots”. He’d hate people trying to cast him in a “good light”. He often said to me that he wondered why Satanists wanted to present him as a Good Guy. “I’m not a good guy” he would yell, “I’m a miserable sonofabitch!” That’s the LaVey I knew.

And he was much darker, very much darker than anyone is willing to admit these days. He was brutal to the max. That’s why I still love him so much… he was maybe the last unapologetic figure of the 20th century.

Whether LaVey agreed or not Satanism was a cult of personality. C.o.S. sans LaVey is like fascism without Mussolini… and a cult of personality requires someone who has a personality. It currently lacks that.

Whether LaVey agreed or not Satanism was a cult of personality. C.o.S. sans LaVey is like fascism without Mussolini… and a cult of personality requires someone who has a personality. It currently lacks that.

I think LaVey’s big mistake was to violate one of his primary directives… to assume others are like unto you and capable of the same things as you are. And they’re not. Elitism is not something you should mass-market. You can of course and it will be very successful. But it will never work out. That to me, with certain notable exceptions, is The Church of Satan today. I hope this will be my last commentary on all this. And I’d be willing to bet they wish the same!

What do you think of satanism nowadays? Has it lost its potential it once had? Do you still consider yourself a satanist – or is there nowadays a better, more updated term to describe the same individual spirit?

I rarely ever “think of satanism” unless asked about it in interviews. But since you asked, I think it is fundamentally flawed in certain of it’s basic premises. I don’t agree with the primacy of individualism any more than I believe that all men were created equal. If individualism existed (which I seriously doubt) I’m not sure what function it would serve. This was an idea which had great appeal in the post-50’s decade of conformity, but has since then not produced much of value in real world terms — more especially in the C.o.S. where it is a fundamental principle. And within that group everyone dresses alike, speaks alike and thinks alike… all based on a mass-market paperback from, what, 40-some years ago?! Am I missing something?

I rarely ever “think of satanism” unless asked about it in interviews. But since you asked, I think it is fundamentally flawed in certain of it’s basic premises.

By the way, I said much the same thing to LaVey when he was still alive, and he had to concur with me. He found it rather depressing. His exact words were “I’ve created a monster”.

– – –

Iconoclast and things involved

Larry Wessel made a lenghty documentary Iconoclast about you that came out the last year. What do you think of the film?

Four hours of me me me has got to be great by anyones standards. But again, it was an attempt to whitewash me and present me as Mr. Fun. That is part of the story, but not the whole story. But most people seemed to like it.

I noticed that you bought and used in the film some nasal snuss. What is your favorite brand? How about the regular “under-your-lip”-type of snuss that you can get f.e. in Sweden and Norway?

I like Gawith Apricot Snuff, Dr. Rumneys, & McCrystals Violet Snuff. Don’t care for chewing tobacco or dental snuff.

I also like Al Capones Vanilla Snuff, which I’ve only ever found in the Leipzig train station.

One of the things that comes to mind from the film is the great spectrum of things where you have been involved with artistically and otherwise over the years. Is there something that you still would have liked been included in the film or excluded from it?

I’m not particularly bothered either way. That film is from two years ago at least and not me or anyone remembers what was or wasn’t in it. At least it wasn’t boring.

One of the more surprising things in the film were your thougths about reincarnation – you said in your talk with Bob Larson that you consider nowadays that a reincarnation might be possible. Do you still think that way? What has made you to consider that reincarnation might be possible?

I’ve always known things that I’ve never been taught. At a very young age my son said to me “when you were a child I was a man, now I’m a child and you’re my father”. This seemed quite odd to me at the time. When I visited my fathers sister a week later I told her of this conversation, and showed her a picture of my son. She said that the strange red marks my son was born with on his nose were identical to the scars on my grandfathers nose that he got when his model T truck was driven over a cliff. This sort of thing is very common in tales of reincarnation. As a child I had very specific memories of things and places I had never experienced. When I asked my parents why I had these memories they told me they were probably only dreams, but I knew they weren’t.

I’ve always known things that I’ve never been taught.

I still think ideas like genetic memory or ancestral recall are valid, at least in some cases, but my actual theories about reincarnation are too complex to explain in a format like this.

Bob Larson is featured in the film among many other persons. Your encounter with him in the film is pretty different from the early 90’s radio shows where he interviewed you. Has your view of Bob changed during this time? Do you think Bob really believes in the stuff he talks about or is he really like P.T. Barnum, as you once stated in his radio show?

Bob has been extremely consistent ever since he published his first book, in around 1970 or something. I don’t think you can fake something like that for over 40 years. I met his father one time and he was a True Believer. Of course Bob is a showman and understands how to play his audience. So was Anton LaVey… and P. T. Barnum. Nothing wrong with that!

What do you think of teenage girl exorcists Bob has apparently trained into the job? Is Bob a little bit dirty old man or is this just about the showman part you mentioned?

I think it’s pure showmanship. But it would make a good premise for a TV show — a sort or christian Charlies Angels.

In the film you tell about some of the pranks you have done, for example the famous goat head prank. What do you consider as your best pranks ever? Who are your favorite pranksters alive nowdays?

We snuck into a good friends house and left a bottle of maple syrup in his refrigeratator. It came in a bottle shaped like an old woman, and the incident totally freaked him out. He began carrying a gun with him everywhere the very next day. But the best pranks are when you draw someone into an absurd world of your own making and your fantasy becomes their reality, even if just for a short time. Therefore, the best pranksters now are mainstream politicians because that is their full time job. They are the best, because they’re the best conmen, but not necessarily my favorites.

– – –

Scandinavia, ABBA, Finland and the future

NON gave a live show in Norway the last year. How was it? 

It was great. A lot of people from Finland traveled there to see it and a lot came to my show at The Roundhouse in London. I am looking forward to my visit there. See you soon.

You are an ABBA fan. What’s cool about ABBA? Do you have a big ABBA collection?

I have enough obscure ABBA songs that I could put together an entire album… songs that the band didn’t really release because they considered them imperfect or too weird. But of course the worst ABBA song is better than the best songs from a lot of bands. I wanted to cover them and put out an album called ABBA LEAD (as opposed to ABBA GOLD). I pitched the idea to Rose McDowall, but she didn’t seem interested. Shame… because that could have been huge.

The worst ABBA song is better than the best songs from a lot of bands.

That is a shame, indeed! Maybe she will change her mind about the project one day… I think you would make a fabulous cover of “Waterloo” and “Does your mother know” with maybe a bit changed lyrics. What do you think of this in addition of making covers of ABBA’s more obscure songs?

Don’t ask. None of this will ever happen anyway.

You are going to have a concert in Helsinki on 6th of November this year. This is the first time you’ll have a concert in Finland. What are you expecting and hoping from your visit here? How long you’ll stay here, any places you plan to visit, etc.? What kind of associations Finland brings to your mind?

I met people in London who flew all the way from Finland to see my show at the Roundhouse, and more people in Norway who did the same. So I’m looking forward to my trip there and have wanted to see it for a long time.

I recently met the daughter of Saarinen, and found out there is some sort of Saarinen museum just outside Helsinki… I’d love to see that and anything connected with the man or his family. He’s my favorite architect.

What kind of projects you are working with nowadays? What can we expect from you in some near future?

Most of this year I’ve been working on a book of my art for a British publisher — paintings, photos, montages & graphic design. It’s nearly done. Later this year a number of my essays are coming out in Outre Journal out of Australia. I also just filmed some scenes for Richard Wolstencroft’s new film The Second Coming, which is based on the poem by William Butler Yeats. I just returned from NYC where I spent time in the studio recording some new stuff. So I keep busy…

What makes you happy?

Animals make me happy… prairie dogs, foxes, squirrels and cats… coatis, bunnies, capybaras and kiwis.

But I still love consternation. I still love pissing people off. I love knowing that my very existence causes certain people great discomfort. And they deserve it… in spades!

– – –

Thank you for the interview, Boyd!

Boyd Rice will perform at Kuudes Linja in Helsinki on 6th of November. You can buy tickets to the concert from Tiketti. Facebook page for the event can be found from here.

– – –

Related links:

Boyd Rice/NON official webpage.

Boyd Rice/NON official Facebook page.

– – –

Related previous posts:

Boyd Rice live at Kuudes linja, Helsinki, 6th November.

Church of Satan is dead.

Boyd Rice: An Embodiment of the Wolf’s Hook.

Larry Wessel speaks!

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Rose Kelly, Aleister Crowley, and their first child
Nuit Ma Ahathoor Hecate Sappho Jezebel Lilith.

In 1904 Aleister Crowley composed a pornographic novel called Snowdrops From a Curate’s Garden to amuse his wife Rose Kelly and their guests. According to Tobias Churton, the book was parody of life at a Turf Club, a colonial sanctuary in Egypt. Apparently the book was inspired also by Crowley’s adventures in Paris. Here are two notes that Crowley himself made of the book:

I spent many of my evenings at a little restaurant called the Chat blanc in the rue d’Odessa, where was “an upper room furnished” and consecrated informally to a sort of international clique of writers, painters, sculptors, students and their friends. It has been described with accurate vigour in the introduction to Snowdrops from a Curate’s Garden. (Confessions of Aleister Crowley).

I knew that a poet is incapable of recognizing his best work, but I knew also that though good technique does not mean good work bad technique does mean bad work. So I used to experiment with new forms by choosing a ridiculous or obscene subject, lest I should be tempted to publish a poem whose technique showed inexperience.

Ivor and I, with some assistance from Gerald, collected such of these manuscripts as had not been destroyed, and with “the Nameless Novel”, we composed a volume (Snowdrops from a Curate’s Garden.) to carry on the literary form of White Stains and Alice; that is, we invented a perpetrator for the atrocities.

I do now know what mischievous whim induced me to have the book printed, but I was absolutely innocent of any desire to rival the exploit of Alfred de Musset and George Sand, the Femmes and Hombres of Verlain, or the jeu d’esprit of Mark Twain of which Sir Walter Raleigh is the hero. I did not even hope to get the British government to give me a pension of four thousand pounds a year, as it did to John Cleland. (Confessions of Aleister Crowley).

I am not sure if all editions of the splendid book has a hilarious glossary of synonyms and phrases, but at least Teitan Press’ edition from 1986 does contain it. It looks like this:

– – –

Cover of the 1st edition.

Anus. Arsehole, back paddy-field, bottom-hole, bung-hole, button-hole, clyster-pipe, crack, cuntlet, farter, gut-end, inkstand, love-passage, manure manufactory, rose, shit-sewer, shit-slot, stinkhouse, turd-hole, turd-pipe, turd-trap.

Breasts. Bubbies, butter-bags, butter-pats, rosy-buttoned titties.

Clitoris. Emotion-knob, fancy-fagot’s fuck-flapper, Lady’s love-lump.

Erection. Cock-stand, Irish toothache, stand.

Female emissions. Fuck-muck, sauce, spend, towsy-mowsy.

Intercourse. Androgynation, assault, bacon-rubbing, beast with two backs, block, board, brangle buttock game, buffet, bum tickling, clean, clicket, cuddle-my-cuddie, Cully-shangy, defraud, dry-bob, dug, filter, firkytoodle, fulk, futter, goose-and-ducked, heaving, Hey Gammer Cock, hog, jiggle, jounce, jum, jumble, jumble-giblets, jummed, knock up, lard, leather-stretch, mash, mumble-peg, nick, niggle, pack, piddle, prick-scouring, rootle, rub, rumping, shag, slept, smoke, split, sting, stir, storm, swive, tail-twitching, thrash, tummy-tickling, tupping, twat-raking, vault, watch.

Male emissions. Baby-bouillon, baby-juice, bliss-blanc-mange, cream, creamy essence, emotion-emulsions, essence of immortality, fertilizing fluid, fuck, fuck-fritters, fuck-spunk, gravy, jelly, joy-junket, juice, liquor, love-lap, love-lotion, love-spunk, man-mess, man-molasses, oysters, pleasure-pudding, posterity-pudding, Scotch Broth, Semolina-pudding, short and spitty spend, spendings, spunk, spunkings, tapioca pudding, tool-treacle.

Masturbation. Frig.

Orgasm. Crisis, rode to glory.

Penis. Adder, affair, arbor-vitae, arse-wedge, arseopener, article, aspersing-tool, Athenaeum, bag-of-tricks, bald-headed hermit, banana, battering-piece, bauble, beak, bean-tosser, beard-splitter, belly-ruffian, best leg of three, bush-wacker, butter-knife, callibistris, cane, Captain Standish, chink-stopper, chit-terlings, claw-buttock, coney-catcher, copper-stick, cram-stick, Davy, dolly, doodle, drumstick, engine, fiddlestick, field artillery, fuzzle, gap-stopper, garden-engine, girlometer, gully-raker, gut-stick, hair-splitter, intercrural pudding, Jack-in-the-box, jargonelle, jiggling-bone, jockam, John Thomas, Julius Caesar, lance-of-love, leather-stretcher, life-preserver, live sausage, liver-turner, lollipop, love-dart, man-root, marrow-bone, Master John Thursday, master-member, meat-skewer, mentule, metal, nilnisitando, nocker, nosegay, Old Slimy, Ox in a Teacup, pick-lock, pillar, pillicock, pisser, pizzle, plenipo, ploughshare, plug, plug-tail, pond-snipe, poperine pear, prick, prickle, pudding, pudendum, quickening-peg, quim-stake, ramrod, rocket, rolling-pin, root, rubigo, sad soul, sausage, Schmeichaz, schnickel, shako, sledge-hammer, slime-stick, stern-post, sugar-stick, tarse, tent-peg, tentacle, thorn-in-the-flesh, thrysus, thumb-of-love, tickle-gizzard, tickle-toby, tonsil-teaser, touch-trap, treacle-tap, trouble-giblets, tug-mutton, tuning-fork, twat-teaser, warrior, weapon, Weary Willie, whack, whore-pipe, wimble, yard.

Pubic hair. Scut.

Testicles. Bags of fecundity, bollocks, cods, cream cheeses, endowments, hangers, love-lobes.

Vagina. Abyss, arbour, beauty-spot, bird’s nest, bivalve, Black Bess, breadwinner, busby, butter-boat, cabbage, cabbage field, cabbage-patch, carnal-trap, cat, catch-’em-alive-o, cauliflower, cave of harmony, cavity, cellar-door, central furrow, cloack-room, coynte, crinkum-crankum, cuckoo’s nest, cunnie, cunnikin, cunt, custard-pot, customs, cut-and-come-again, diddly-pout, doodle-sack, Dripping Well, dripping-pan, duckpond, dumb glutton, Eden Garden, eel-pot, factotum, fly-by-night, front paddy-field, fruit-basket, gallimaufry, gammon, garter, gravy-giver, grease-hole, grotto, grummet, gutter, harbour, hollow, home-sweet-home, horse-collar, hotchpotch, india-rubber-plant, inglenook, intercrural trench, isthmus, Jack Straw’s castle, Jacob’s ladder, jelly-bag, little sister, lobster-pot, lover’s locker, lower, lucky-bag, maiden erring, man-trap, Mary Jane, medlar, melting-pot, merkin, milking-pail, mine of pleasure, mustard-pot, mutton-pie, omnibus, oyster-catcher, paper parcel, Penny-Pipe, periwinkle, pizzle-skinner, pox-eaten charms, pussycat, quim, rabbit-pie, rat-trap, rattle-ballocks, red herring, reproductive mechanism, sack of corn, sanctuary, saucy salmon, secret charms, shop, shop of stench, slit, snatch blatch, snatch-box, socket, spleuchan, split-mutton, square push, strawberry-patch, strong room, suck-and-swallow, tarbucket, thatched house, thing, Touch-her-home, touch-hole, tow-wow, tufted treasure, tunnel, tuzzy-muzzy, Twopenny-Tube, vademecum, water-closet, weather-gig, whim-wham, yum-yum.

– – –

The book is apparently in a public domain nowadays. One place where you can download the book (without the glossary of synonyms and phrases quoted above) as a pdf-file is here. I highly recommend, though, that you go and buy the book.

93, 93/93

– – –

Related:

Obama in Crowley shirt.

Did Aleister Crowley visit Finland?

Fresh fever from the skies: Churton’s biography of Crowley.

Perdurabo.

Kenneth Anger – Valkokankaan kapinallinen maagikko.

Lain kirja Pohjois-Karjalan murteella.

Liber Oz Pohjois-Karjalan murteella.

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